Silver Stock Report: Warren Buffett vs. Hommel on Gold

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Warren Buffett on Gold

(vs. Hommel on Gold!)

Silver Stock Report

by Jason Hommel, September 24, 2013

Warren Buffet explained why he does not see the value in gold in his annual report from 2011.
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf

http://ivanhoff.com/2013/04/15/warren-buffett-on-gold/
It was republished by ivanhoff, and came to my attention last week, which gave me this occasion to respond.   Here I go.

Buffett:
The second major category of investments involves assets that will never produce anything, but that are purchased in the buyer’s hope that someone else – who also knows that the assets will be forever unproductive – will pay more for them in the future. Tulips, of all things, briefly became a favorite of such buyers in the 17th century.

Hommel:
Buffett is claiming that Gold's value exists only because other people will buy it.  True.  True of all assets.  And this is exactly why gold is a good thing, because of all things, gold is most likely to be valuable in more places to more people than nearly any other item that you can consider, precisely because it is money.  But Buffett presents this as a bad thing, calling gold "unproductive".  Well, let's see, how is gold productive?  It can go up in value, just like stocks or bonds or housing, or any other asset.  People recognize that gold has value not because it gains value, but because it does not decay or rot or go bad.  Food makes a horrible form of money, partly because it goes bad.  One of the longest lasting kinds of food is the wheat kernel, which can last up to twenty years.  Gold lasts 6000 years, with no decay.

Buffett:
This type of investment requires an expanding pool of buyers, who, in turn, are enticed because they believe the buying pool will expand still further.  Owners are not inspired by what the asset itself can produce – it will remain lifeless forever – but rather by the belief that others will desire it even more avidly in the future.

Hommel:  True, gold buyers do not buy gold for what gold will produce, but most of my gold buyers are buying gold because they do believe it will go up in value, because they do believe that others will see what they can see, that gold is special, and cannot be printed to excess like paper money is being created to excess these days.  Gold buyers buy gold also because they recognize that gold does not decay, because it has a very high value for the weight and density which makes it portable, and because it can be hidden.

Buffett:  The major asset in this category is gold, currently a huge favorite of investors who fear almost all other assets, especially paper money (of whose value, as noted, they are right to be fearful). Gold, however, has two significant shortcomings, being neither of much use nor procreative. True, gold has some industrial and decorative utility, but the demand for these purposes is both limited and incapable of soaking up new production. Meanwhile, if you own one ounce of gold for an eternity, you will still own one ounce at its end.

Hommel:  True, gold is not procreative.  But this does not mean that gold cannot go up in value.  Gold does have a use.  The use is as a store of value.  The use is to communicate value over time.  Gold has three primary uses: as a store of value, as a unit of account, and as a medium of exchange.  These days, it is not used much as a medium of exchange, because no government on earth is issuing gold as circulating currency, but because all nations issue paper money.  This is making gold an excellent store of value, because gold is increasing in value more than all the paper money being continually printed.  The key use of gold in our times is not only in that it holds value, but gains value.  This is because the new supply of gold is far less than demand.  The world prints nearly $5 to $10 trillion worth of paper money per year, which is $5,000 to $10,000 billion.  In contrast, the world mines about 83 million ounces of new gold, at $1334/oz, is worth only a mere $111 billion.  Clearly, there will be more and more buyers of gold in the near and far future.

Buffett:  What motivates most gold purchasers is their belief that the ranks of the fearful will grow. During the past decade that belief has proved correct. Beyond that, the rising price has on its own generated additional buying enthusiasm, attracting purchasers who see the rise as validating an investment thesis. As “bandwagon” investors join any party, they create their own truth – for a while.

Hommel:  Gold buyers are derided as "fearful" by Buffett.  And he notes this has recently been correct.  But also wise.  He could have written, "The ranks of the wise will grow".  Perhaps more apt.

Buffett:  Over the past 15 years, both Internet stocks and houses have demonstrated the extraordinary excesses that can be created by combining an initially sensible thesis with well-publicized rising prices. In these bubbles, an army of originally skeptical investors succumbed to the “proof” delivered by the market, and the pool of buyers – for a time – expanded sufficiently to keep the bandwagon rolling. But bubbles blown large enough inevitably pop. And then the old proverb is confirmed once again: “What the wise man does in the beginning, the fool does in the end.”

Hommel:  True, bubbles happened in stocks and houses.  And probably still are in a bubble.  Is gold in a bubble?  When less than $100 billion is being mined each year?  I think not.  His buddy Bill Gates could buy half the world's annual gold production, and would probably become a lot more wealthy if he tried.  I say tried, because there is no way he would succeed, because his stock is not liquid enough to sell that much, and the gold market is too tight to buy half the gold market without pushing the gold price up, too.  My point is that the gold market boom is still in the beginning stages. 

Buffett:  Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce – gold’s price as I write this – its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A.

Hommel:  Today, one to two years later, gold prices are down to $1335.  Buffet was right for one year out of a thirteen year bull market in gold.  Buffett will likely be wrong next year.  But 170,000 metric tonnes at $1335/oz. is x 32,151 oz/tonne is $7.3 trillion today. 

The tiny size of the cube of gold in pile A also explains why gold is valuable.  It contains a lot of value in a small space, making it very portable.  Some people wonder why gold should be any different than copper or any other metal, asserting that the other metals could be used just as easily as silver and gold.  Really?  Well, I have a 33 kilo block of copper that cost about $300, about the same as a ten oz. bar of silver.  Which would you rather carry to the grocery store?  Also, the copper has a spread on it to buy and sell of over 50%.  Or, would you prefer a quarter oz. of gold for about $330?

Buffett:  Let’s now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world’s most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?

Hommel:  Can you imagine an investor with $7.3 trillion to begin with?  There are no investors who are worth so much, are there Mr. Buffett?  Besides, even if there were, there is no evidence that the entire world supply of gold is being all offered at the current asking price for gold.  The vast majority of gold does not trade each year.  World annual mine supply ads only about 1.5% to the pile per year.  Well, let's calculate it.  http://www.goldsheetlinks.com/production2.htm  170,000 tonnes in existing stock.  World annual production about 2600 tonnes.  1.529%.  Yup, still the same after all these years.

But Buffett's point is that he cannot imagine any investor buying the gold instead of the farmland and oil companies.  But let's compare more clearly, $40 billion x 16  Exxon Mobils is $640 billion, plus the $200 billion from crops, which means the oil companies and land produce about $840 billion.  Well, how much does the pile of the world's gold produce?  Gold is likely to exceed $1900 in the next year or two, from $1336 today.  As it does, the pile of gold will go up from $7.3 trillion to $10.4 trillion.  Now let's compare shall we?  $640 billion gain in the oil companies, and $3.1 trillion, or $3100 billion in the gold pile.   I think I've made my point, but let me go further.  In actual fact, 16 Exxon Mobils don't exist.  It's a pure fantasy choice, as in, "not real".  The gold is real.  That makes the gold choice not only several times better, but infinitely better, doesn't it?

Buffett:  Beyond the staggering valuation given the existing stock of gold, current prices make today’s annual production of gold command about $160 billion.  Buyers – whether jewelry and industrial users, frightened individuals, or speculators – must continually absorb this additional supply to merely maintain an equilibrium at present prices.

Hommel:  As we have seen, the existing annual production of gold is now $111 billion, and being purchased not by "frightened individuals, or speculators", but by "wise investors," and even central banks now!  And again, with $5000 to $10,000 billion dollars worth of currency being printed world wide, I think the new gold will have plenty of ready buyers for decades to come.  In fact, Gold is acting not only as a value preserver, but value gainer, for those investors who don't want be robbed by governments.

Buffett:  A century from now the 400 million acres of farmland will have produced staggering amounts of corn, wheat, cotton, and other crops – and will continue to produce that valuable bounty, whatever the currency may be. Exxon Mobil will probably have delivered trillions of dollars in dividends to its owners and will also hold assets worth many more trillions (and, remember, you get 16 Exxons). The 170,000 tons of gold will be unchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything. You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.

Hommel:  I'd wager that a century from now, none of the world's currencies today will have any value at all, but the gold still will.  Gold is not a choice between oil and gold, it's a choice between paper money and gold.  No investor will ever go out and buy 100 barrels of oil at $103/barrel to store on his lawn, to preserve $10,000 worth of paper money value, because the oil is extraordinarily inconvenient, and expensive to store and ship for the relative value.  But anyone can buy 7 gold eagles that will fit into the palm of your hand for $10,000, which takes up about 1/10th of the space as a stack of 100 of the $100 bills.

Buffett: Admittedly, when people a century from now are fearful, it’s likely many will still rush to gold. I’m confident, however, that the $9.6 trillion current valuation of pile A will compound over the century at a rate far inferior to that achieved by pile B.

Hommel:  In contrast, I'm supremely confident that the world's pile of gold will increase in value far faster than oil.  The reason is that gold has been money for about 6000 years of human history, and mankind has only been using oil for about 160 years or so.  Furthermore, the world's bankers began attacking gold as money about that far back, so the world has never had a good historical gold to oil ratio in place during a time when the world used gold as money!  Therefore, we have to use intuition to determine a proper value for gold as compared to oil, assuming the world returned to using gold as money, and it probably will.  I would supsect that the world's gold production should be valued more than the world's oil production, because the world'd gold production must be spend on more than "just oil".  As it is, oil is no more than 5-10% of the world's economy, but let's assume oil were as much as 50%.  Well, then, the world's gold production would be worth about twice as much as world oil production, because people would need some gold left over to buy everything else.  That would assume a value for gold as follows:

World annual oil production is about 90 million barrels per day.

x 365 days/year x $100/barrel =

That's about $3.3 trillion per year in dollar value, of oil production.

If world gold production of 83.5 million oz. were worth $6.6 trillion per year, that divides out to $79,000 per oz. for gold!

Oh yes, in the last five years, gold and silver have solidly outperformed Birkshire Hathaway stock.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=BRK-A&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=slv%2C+gld&ql=1

And I suppose gold and silver have significantly outperformed BRK in the last 13 years.

https://www.google.com/#q=brk.b

Since the year 2000, BRK.B has gone from $40 to $114, an increase of 2.85 times.

Since the year 2000, Gold has gone from $255 to $1314, an increase of 5.1 times.

=====

I strongly advise you to take possession of real gold and silver, at anywhere near today's prices, while you still can.   The fundamentals indicate rising prices for decades to come, and a major price spike can happen at any time.

Please note our new shorter hours, I'm working in each shop every other day.

JH MINT in Grass Valley
Open 11AM to 4PM Pacific Time, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
Closed Tuesday, Thursday, weekends and bank holidays.  (Also Closed from Dec. 25th to Jan 1st)
13241 Grass Valley Ave
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 273-8175
www.jhmint.com

Minimum telephone order $5000 for free shipping, USA shipping only.

JH MINT in Auburn
Open 11AM to 4PM Pacific Time, Tuesday, Thursday.
Closed Monday, Wednesday, Friday, weekends and bank holidays.  (Also Closed from Dec. 25th to Jan 1st)
1760 Highway 49 A140
Auburn, CA 95603
(530) 889-1086
www.jhmint.com

You can also buy silver from my mom at www.momssilvershop.com
Mom will ship overseas, even large orders up to $300,000 or larger, and also in lots of more or less than 100 ounces.   
3510 Auburn Blvd #12
Sacramento, CA 95821

Sincerely,

Jason Hommel
www.silverstockreport.com
www.bibleprophesy.org 

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Silver Stock Report: Slow Business for Bullion Dealers

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Slow Business for Gold and Silver Dealers

(But JH MINT is OPEN for business!)

Silver Stock Report

by Jason Hommel, September 21, 2013

I am working in my shops due to slow business conditions.  I think I'll have to write more, too!

The JH MINT store in Grass Valley will be open Monday, Wednesday and Friday from 11am to 4pm.

The JH MINT store in Auburn will be open Tuesday and Thursday same shorter hours.

Since I wrote my last article about how the wild price changes are likely designed to convince people to not buy silver and gold,  I heard a large bullion dealer in Colorado was closed for 12 days recently for the same reason--slow business conditions.

Wild Price Changes: Comments  September 16th, 2013 
Wild Price Changes  September 15th, 2013  

I really like how the wild price changes are a confirmation of my closing comments for the past few years, "a major price spike can happen at any time."

An article in resource investor confirms slow business for gold eagle sales, nationwide.

Gold and silver still reel up from ‘shock’
BY JAN SKOYLES
September 20, 2013
http://www.resourceinvestor.com/2013/09/20/gold-and-silver-still-reel-up-from-shock

"Data from the US Mint shows there was a slowdown in coin demand in August. Just 11,500 ounces of American Eagle gold coins were sold last month, the lowest in six years. The number is significantly down from the 205,000 sold in April."

I sincerely didn't think that these days would come, at 13 years into a bull market for gold and silver.  I really thought that the amazing gains in the prices of silver and gold would pull more and more people into gold and silver more and more.  I did not foresee that wild price changes and lack of news coverage on wild government spending would combine to create such disinterest in the beginning of this precious metals bull market that is literally unstoppable.

Yes, the price manipulators can get their way, from time to time, for a few years even, but the only thing more wild than the price swings in silver and gold, is the wild spending and money printing (ok, electronic money creation) by government, that can do only one thing in the long run, and that is, lead to vast increases in the paper prices, and increases in real values, for gold and silver.

=====

I strongly advise you to take possession of real gold and silver, at anywhere near today's prices, while you still can.   The fundamentals indicate rising prices for decades to come, and a major price spike can happen at any time.

JH MINT in Grass Valley
Open 11AM to 4PM Pacific Time, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
Closed Tuesday, Thursday, weekends and bank holidays.  (Also Closed from Dec. 25th to Jan 1st)
13241 Grass Valley Ave
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 273-8175
www.jhmint.com

Minimum telephone order $5000 for free shipping, USA shipping only.

JH MINT in Auburn
Open 11AM to 4PM Pacific Time, Tuesday, Thursday.
Closed Monday, Wednesday, Friday, weekends and bank holidays.  (Also Closed from Dec. 25th to Jan 1st)
1760 Highway 49 A140
Auburn, CA 95603
(530) 889-1086
www.jhmint.com

You can also buy silver from my mom at www.momssilvershop.com
Mom will ship overseas, even large orders up to $300,000 or larger, and also in lots of more or less than 100 ounces.   
3510 Auburn Blvd #12
Sacramento, CA 95821

Sincerely,

Jason Hommel
www.silverstockreport.com
www.bibleprophesy.org 

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Silver Stock Report: Wild Price Changes: Comments

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Wild Price Changes: Comments

(Great Comments from Readers!)

Silver Stock Report

by Jason Hommel, September 16th, 2013

Here are most of the comments from my readers on this article from last night:
Wild Price Changes  September 15th, 2013 
http://silverstockreport.com/2013/wild-price-changes.html

These comments are especially important on this topic, because the encouraging feedback is important when I'm mostly guessing, and when evidence and facts are thin.  Every comment was encouraging, none disagreed.  Think about that.

=====

>The price swings reinforce that the silver market is tiny, and the
>paper money markets are oversized.

Indeed so.  In fact, the entire financial segment of the US economy
is wildly over-sized.  This is why we are seeing such turbulent
times in the various markets.  There are too many people stirring the
pot and not enough people actually making the soup.  I have
read articles in which various economists opine that the US needs a
financial industry that accounts for about 10% of the business
activity nationwide.  But, do we have that?  NO!  We have a financial
industry that accounts for 40% of the US business activity and
that is 4x bigger than is actually needed.  All this does is
introduce even more distortions into the US economy;  as if the US Gov
and the Fed haven't already done much more of that than is necessary.

>The price swings indicate that the paper money printers are pushing
>the silver price around to keep people away from silver, because
>they fear the inevitable price rises that printing excess money
>always leads to.

Yes, they do and they want silver and gold both to be as unappealing
as possible, so creating a market in which the prices for these
metals are volatile and frightening for the average investor is the
best way that they have to keep the sheep penned up and not trading
their ever-worth-less paper dollars for precious metals.

Fortunately, many of us in the PM camp do not see these as
investments but as financial insurance against the incompetence of
our "leaders".  Far too much money has been borrowed and
squandered.  Far too many promises of additional spending have
been made that it is now becoming clear to John and Mary Average
American that cannot be kept.  Far too much buying power
has been lost from the US dollar in fiat form.  I buy gold and silver
not because of what I fear might happen but because of what
I KNOW IS happening.  Over my lifetime, I have seen the price of
silver go from $1.30 an oz. when it was used as 90% silver in
US coinage to near $50, back to $4, back to near $50, and now hanging
in around $22.  At this same time, I have seen gasoline
go from $0.25 a gallon to $4 a gallon.  But, I also know that a US
90% silver quarter can be sold for about $4 at most coin and
bullion shops.  In terms of silver, gasoline prices have not changed
a bit in the last 50 years.  In terms of fiat, however, they have
increased by 1600%!  Food prices are similar.  When my wife and I got
married in 1969, we would shop for food together at the
local grocery store.  Money was very tight, so we got few
luxuries.  About once a month, I would buy a package of Nutter Butter
cookies for $0.53.  This was a treat and one that I didn't get all
the time.  On a recent trip to our current local grocery store, I
spotted a package of Nutter Butter cookies and the price tag read
$4.49!  This is a rise of 847%.  But, if I take one of my 90%
silver half dollars and sell it, I can get at least $8 for it at the
local coin and bullion shop, so in silver terms these cookies actually
cost less today than they did 44 years ago!  So much for the use of a
fiat currency as a store of value.

>Silver has moved up from about $18.50 to a high of about $24.46 in
>the last month.  That's a gain of $5.96/oz., which is a gain of
>32.2% in about three weeks!

Indeed... and I haven't heard a peep about this on the financial
radio and TV shows.  But, let silver and gold stumble even a little and
that seems to be ALL that they want to talk about.  From 2000 to
2011, gold was up 500% in dollar terms and silver was up 600%.
But was this trumpeted from the roof-tops?  Nope.  Barely even
mentioned in quick blurbs stuck in between "real" stories.  Had a
stock done this, there would have been dancing in the streets of NY
City and 24/7 ranting about it!

>Not really, because the lending market is rigged.

Right... along with most (all?) other markets as well.  If there is
money to be made by rigging something, it is safe to assume that someone
somewhere is doing just that.  Can we say LIBOR?  Why, yes, we
can!  If a multi-trillion dollar system like LIBOR can be rigged for years
and years, what makes anyone think that the gold and silver markets
are not rigged too?  If we know anything about government it is that
it hates competition and, make no mistake about it, gold and silver
are seen by these people as alternative / competitive currencies to the
US dollar.

>It really indicates that the Federal Reserve is trying to hold the
>economy together by pushing cheap money into the economy through
>Federal Housing lenders who are trying to re-inflate the housing
>bubble to keep home prices high.  Again, future generations would
>read that sentence and probably not understand why the government
>would have such a disastrous policy.

Agreed!  In fact, you can also add that if the US dollar was so
great, why does the Fed have to practically give them away to "stimulate"
the US economy?  Nobody even comes close to giving away gold or
silver because no one has to do that for them to be desired.

>After all, if silver moved up at clearly defined constant rates more
>than the lending rate, say, at 5% per year, then any moron or
>nincompoop or fool after a few short years could otherwise see that
>buying silver would be a far better move than keeping savings in the
>bank or buying government bonds.  And if people did that, well,
>paper money values might collapse even faster, driving up silver
>values even faster, and there could be runaway inflation, and paper
>money could just collapse to zero as everyone headed for the safe
>havens of silver and gold.
>
>Clearly, they can't allow that.

No, they can't but the heck of it is that this WILL happen
anyway.  All they are doing is delaying the inevitable with all these market
manipulations, money printing, currency swaps, and trash-buying from
banks dumb enough to have loaded their balance sheets
with all the financial sewage of the past several years.  So, now the
Fed has a lot of that drek on their own balance sheet and is
getting desperate to remove at least some of it, lest they be seen as
complete fools themselves.  Personally, I think that it is
already too late to avoid that.

>(And actually, since 2004, silver has moved up from $4.15/oz. to
>$21.38/oz., over the last nine years, which is a compounded average
>annual gain of 20%!!)

Also studiously unmentioned in the financial press.

>So, to let paper money exist, they must keep a lid on letting silver
>and gold prices rise, and they do.  Or, they need to hide the steady
>average annual gains, behind wild price changes.

Yes, that and a very friendly media that plays along with it.

>So, with artificially low prices, eventually the pressure builds,
>like today, which is why we have had a runaway bull market in silver
>and gold for the past nine to ten years now.

Yes and in fact we STILL have a bull market in both gold and silver
despite these induced price fluctuations.  Many of the people
in the financial media seem completely unaware of the fact that a 50%
pull-back in the middle of a gold bull market is not at all
unusual.  I don't know if this is the case for silver but I suspect
that it is.  This is not a signal that the metals bull market is over.
It only shows that the bull has retraced and is gathering strength to
form higher lows and higher highs.

>Clearly, the people who print paper money at rates of $85 billion
>per month don't want to lose the right to print that paper
>money.  Clearly, the people who print paper money at rates of $85
>billion per month have not yet bought a lot of silver for themselves
>to hoard, since $85 billion / 300 million  ounces would be
>$85,000/300, or $283 per ounce.

No, they do not and if history is any guide, these people are willing
to kill to keep this greatest of all financial prizes.  Abe Lincoln
by-passed the bankers, printed US greenbacks to fund the civil war,
and ended up assassinated for his efforts.  Jack Kennedy
did something similar and he was assassinated.  Five unsuccessful
attempts were made to assassinate Andrew Jackson before
they gave up, likely because he threatened to gather the US Army
about himself and march on them in NY if they did not cease
and desist immediately.  These are evil people who will do and have
done anything to protect their money printing privilege.  It is
unearned and undeserved.  This power needs to be returned to the
people via the US House of Representatives and not held
by a private banking cartel, such as the Federal Reserve System,
which is not a federal government entity and has no reserves.
Never trust anything that has a name that is specifically created to
disguise their true purpose.

>Now, before I get to that, let me address the potential nay sayers
>who may claim that it's "Normal" for silver to move that much,
>because that's what we see.  Well, why doesn't the interest rate
>fluctuate that much?  It doesn't, because it's "fixed" by the
>Federal Reserve, because we live in a financial system of "fixed"
>prices.  If they fixed prices for silver like they do for the
>interest rate for money, they might make silver as stable as the interest rate.

Another argument could be made for comparing the routine changes in
oil and gas prices vs. those of PMs.  My guess is that
PMs are at least twice as volatile as oil and maybe 4 times as
volatile as natural gas.

>First, I think it indicates that the price is a lie.  A
>manipulation.  A false report.  A bogus claim.  The way that prices
>are "quoted" has nothing to do with actual silver being traded, and
>yet, actual traders of real silver look at those quoted prices, and
>often trade accordingly.

Agreed!

>The quoted price is called the "spot" price, and it is a ticker tape
>of paper futures market trades in lots of 5000 oz. at a time.  Each
>lot is one contract, and thousands of contracts trade in a
>day.  Most of these paper contracts do not result in any delivery of
>silver, since they are for delivery "in the future" on the futures markets.
>
>The futures price is pushed around by electronic and pit traders who
>trade both futures and options and puts.

I have no problem with futures contracts or shorting but what we have
seen in the PM markets goes far beyond both of these.
Naked shorting of very large blocks of paper gold and silver in the
thinly traded wee hours of the night have no legitimate
trading or investment purpose.  Their only purpose is price
suppression and it is VERY thinly disguised, IMO.

>But it's those who have the net worth exceeding $100 billion, that
>push the price around, illegally, with no criminal prosecution,
>because they are probably doing it on behalf of the Federal
>Government, with the specific intent to keep people in paper money,
>and out of silver.

Their Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card has been pre-arranged and is all
ready to help them get out of any legal binds that they may
get into at the lower government levels.  In fact, it is likely that
if a state were to sue these bankers for PM market manipulation,
the US Gov would step in, claim that the banks were working with the
Gov on a matter of "national security", and that any and all
legal action instituted by the state(s) would be declared null and void.

>See, I feel and believe that the government is attempting to make
>silver look "volatile" and shaky and unpredictable, but the truth is
>that paper money is what is truly volatile and shaky.

Agreed.

>See, silver does not come due in a large harvest season.  Mine
>output and refinery output is rather stable in comparison to
>harvesting crops, and should have much more stable prices, day after
>day, month after month.

All true on the production side of the equation but there can be
significant changes on the demand side that can affect prices.
These price effects tend to be over longer periods, though, and not
on a  daily basis.

>The wild price changes are also reflective of the truth that the
>silver market is extraordinarily tiny, and the paper money market is
>beyond massively huge.  Huge paper money trades moving into and out
>of silver push the price around far more than it should otherwise
>trade if the financial system were sound, and soundly backed by
>silver and gold, and if there were no excesses of paper money.

Paper money is prone to excesses.  This is what causes all fiat money
systems to become unbalanced and eventually collapse.
The US dollar is NOT immune to this because it is a function of human
nature and all governments and central banks are staffed
by human beings, so, sooner or later they WILL over-print the
currency and drive its value lower and lower until it is not only worth
less but actually worthless.

>In other words, the major price swings in the silver price are
>actually a forecast for a large price rise in my opinion.

I see these price swings as yet another sign of desperation among
TPTB.  It is clear that the era of fiat currency is ending and
that all fiat currencies will be going the way of the dodo and the
dinosaur... which is to say, extinct.  Real labor should not be
exchanged for fake money and fiat currency is about as fake as money
gets.  Not only do those who print it tell us that it has
value but they also tell us how much value it has.  They can and do
change their minds on this from time to time, devaluing the
currency as seems to fit their political needs of the moment.  Easy
for them to do but very hard on everyone holding that fiat
currency as there wealth can be slashed over-night.  FDR did this
after he called in the gold via EO 6102.  At that time, the
price of gold  was around $20.67.  When they revalued gold, it then
cost $35 an oz.  This is a 70% devaluation in the dollar,
yet this is never mentioned or reported on by the financial
media.  Anyway, this is definitely too ripe a plum not to be taken
advantage of in every way possible... and they are doing just
that.  Over 97% loss in buying power for the US dollar in the
100 years since the Fed came to be.  In the 100 years prior to that,
there was virtually no change in the buying power of the
gold-backed US dollar.  The comparison in the value of US money
during these two periods in time ought to be about as
staggering a financial revelation as anyone can imagine... yet, we
hear nothing about it in our schools, colleges, or universities.
This reminds me of a Mark Twain quote:  "Never let your schooling
interfere with your education".  Many see these as the same
things, yet they most certainly are not.

This is yet another fine article.  Thanks, Jason, for writing this up
and distributing it.  Many of us out here truly appreciate your
efforts to inform people about the inherent values of gold and silver
vs. the inherent instability and declining buying power of fiat
currencies.

        Ed

I replied:
Thank you for your confirming commentary Ed!

=====

Jason,
 
Best message ever...I too have touted the massive daily price fluctuation is silver (picture being wrong, unstability) is due to the market being manipulated and forced down. Silver should be at that rock solid inflation hedge of 0.02% a day as you stated Jason. One day it'll get there and the manipulation will be gone; until then I'm going to keep investing in the "wrong silver picture". I have learned they can make the numbers be anything they want them to be; until they lose control of the monoploy game...which surprisingly they have commanded very well...having a printing press does wonders. Being able to dump in unback paper contracts does wonders.
 
Any time the picture is wrong, fake , synthetic, manipulated...there is money to be made.
 
They can fool 98% of people to remain in dollars- 401k investments....nothing hits hard in life then silver....but you have to pick yourself up and keep moving forward...that's how wining is done (Rocky inspiration).
 
Silver is a moral killer....but if you have a good grasp that the picture is not what it is....the picture being wrong....then it's easier...and a gift at these incedibly low prices to buy more silver.
 
First I bought silver to preserve wealth and become wealthy (me, myself and family)....once I arrived, and the price was still low...I've now had to change my plan.... now I'm buying even more silver to build an empire...so to sppeak...build for generational wealth in my family. Planting a tree is done for someone else's enjoyment...much is the case of my silver lode.
 
I want to make sure....there's no sad bedtime stories in silver in my family...that Grandpa SilverFinger did his job....and saw threw the "wrong picture" they tried to present to everyone....I was not sold on it. Nothing hits harder than silver....that's why I invest in it. Naysayers will have the sad bedtimes stories.
 
Same story will be silver's story too...once it becomes a household name...."Story goes everyone saw it coming (silver), few acted". "Oh, I knew that too but I didn't have any money to act on it". Stories like those will be abundant.
 
take care
 
Regards, M

I replied:
Wise observations, thank you!

=====

you are right Jason.
 
the dominators want a world that fits what is written in Revelations...(Zion protocols, Toronto protocols)
once you have reead this 100 years old paper and compare it to today, ... you wander at their skills...
 
see RFID chips for everyone. (aaron russo)
 
centalized money, electronical
 
removal of silver gold as money
 
they work on their agenda... since 4000 years... they get close.
 
the trouble looks like beeing the chineese and russian that don't want to play that satanic game...
 
the crazy christians (eyes wide shut) try to accelerate the end of times for they own benefits, they want Jesus to come back fast and remove them before
antechrist (Tamus, son of Nimrod and Ishtar) resurects and rules the world for the better!!! HA HA. nuts!
 
while the "so called - khazar jews" (a fake people, benjamin Freedman, see Khazar books) are trying to reconstruct the 3rd temple to invite their
messiah(he did not come 2000 years ago!!!!). (the Jerusalem golden gate must be reopened, the arab cemetery removed, the al aksa mosk destroyed, the temple rebuilt, artwork remanfactured... actually all exists besides the ark! that could lie in the Vatican?!)
 
so those crazy US christian and jewish interests meet in the US / Israel politics into satanic cult of lies, deaths and so on...yes we can rule the world...
Olympics London 2012... a satanic cult with weired symbols.
 
that's my view as a christian, may those people be cursed to the end.
now they lie about Syria... they lied about sadam, they lied about Khadafi...
who will be next. JFK?
 
best regards.
 
BR
 
can you comment on this?

I replied:
Yes, Arron Russo did expose the rfid chip plan in his movie From Freedom to Fascism. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNNeVu8wUak
And that is dangerously close, if not identical to the mark of the beast in Revelation 13. 

I know that many people make a lot of the bloodlines of the Jews.  I don't see that it makes much of an issue, because today, the Bible says there is neither Jew nor Greek and that all gentiles can be saved through Jesus, and that we ought not to dispute about bloodlines, not even those of Jesus. 

I see there is much evidence that white people across Europe and the USA and elsewhere are the lost ten tribes, and while I find that interesting, again, I fail to see significant importance for our age.

=====

Hi,

Hi Jason, you and your readers need to know that the gentiles in the new
testiment ARE the lost sheep of Isreal.  Check out this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fCT0n6VxDA

which explains it from scripture quite well.

Take Care,
D

I replied:
Quite a few readers are bringing this to my attention.  Thank you.

=====

Brilliant, lucid analysis, Jason. In the long term, you have to be right. Trouble is, in the long term we're all....

Regards and thanks

Ian

PS Hope you are keeping up the second career option - the Buddy Holly tribute act?

=====

Jason, This is great and I thank you ! Too bad you can not get over 1 million subscribers. This market is tiny and the masses are ignorant ~ well let me say they are just uninformed. It is hard to break through the barrier that shields this truth. I get fustrated too easily !

Just thinking of my experiences, I guess I'm a failure ~ for trying to spread the word on how silver and gold could save their money !

Now I'm 66 and have gave up trying, the people around me do not want to hear it at all. I think they think I'm crazy !

=====

The whole thing is a manipulation to keep everything from collapse, what do you see happening if we go into hyper inflation & collapse of the dollar? I have heard China's currency is becoming the fiat money for 8 other countries now, with more likely to follow--

=====

Hi Jason,

I read your article very carefully and strongly agree with your conclusions. 

I think another important factor to include is the way gains made in the sale of silver are taxed.

I don't remember the details, but I think it puts a major dent in any "profits" from holding and selling bullion.

Regards,  S

=====

Hi Jason

Thanks for another great report.

I totally agree that Silver paper contracts is totally manipulated, which is why I've only ever bought physical.

Having the Perth Mint almost on my doorstep is great as I can go down there readily and get a few items.

Whilst I am down a bit in dollars due to the Aussie dollar going up so much against the USD, I don't mind the Irony of the fact our dollars go further to make further purchases which get cheaper.

I can't imagine ever selling out for paper fiat now, it was originally my goal a few years ago, but the more i learn it's like giving the authorities the birdie and saying "I don't like what you do so am not giving you my dollars to recklessly gamble and give me <4% interest which you tax and inflate the remainder."

I am more concerned about getting Cyprussed these days our banks over here in Australia are heavily involved in house lending and are yet to get their day of reckoning. It won't be pretty when that occurs. They borrowed off the Fed as well so they are dishonest when they keep telling us they are strong and well-capitalised.

One day the media will be calling us hoaders and speculators when i think we should be considered conservationists of scarce resources. They never consider those with $100 billion to be hoarders of money for some reason. Good luck as you say for those with paper fortunes to squeeze back into the real world of hard assets.

God Bless
Sh

=====

been in the market for 40 years and I totally agree with you.

--DM

=====

Very well done, I have contended this scheme for a long time, the feds are in a tight box with no outlet--I'm ready

--CW

=====

A great article on silver by Jason Hommel, an expert on silver, and a Christian!
--LH

=====

I strongly advise you to take possession of real gold and silver, at anywhere near today's prices, while you still can.   The fundamentals indicate rising prices for decades to come, and a major price spike can happen at any time.

JH MINT & Coin Shop
13241 Grass Valley Ave
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 273-8175
www.jhmint.com

Minimum telephone order $5000 for free shipping, USA shipping only.
Open 10AM to 5PM Pacific Time, Monday to Friday, closed weekends and bank holidays.  (Also Closed from Dec. 25th to Jan 1st)
Kerri handles internet phone orders:
kerri@jhmint.com
(530) 273-8822

NEW Location in Auburn, CA!
JH MINT Silver & Gold
1760 Highway 49 A140
Auburn, CA 95603
(530) 889-1086
www.jhmint.com

You can also buy silver from my mom at www.momssilvershop.com
Mom will ship overseas, even large orders up to $300,000 or larger, and also in lots of more or less than 100 ounces.   
3510 Auburn Blvd #12
Sacramento, CA 95821

Sincerely,

Jason Hommel
www.silverstockreport.com
www.bibleprophesy.org 

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Silver Stock Report: Wild Price Changes in Silver

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Wild Price Changes in Silver

(Up and Down over 5% in a day, mean the silver price is ready to go up!)

Silver Stock Report

by Jason Hommel, September 15th, 2013

I have been a bit amazed by silver's wild price changes lately.  People have asked me to comment on it.  I have my thoughts, so I'll share.

The price swings reinforce that the silver market is tiny, and the paper money markets are oversized.

The price swings show that the paper money market is gravely threatened by the silver market.

The price swings indicate that the paper money printers are pushing the silver price around to keep people away from silver, because they fear the inevitable price rises that printing excess money always leads to.

The price swings in the silver price are actually a forecast for a large price rise in my opinion.

But let me show why I believe that is so.

First of all, I have no insider information, no tips, no secret knowledge, no research capacity, no news commenting skill to explain why silver moves up or down on a daily basis; I cannot explain the past 24 hour price changes, and I cannot predict the next 24 hour price moves.  Nor do I know any other source that can do that consistently, except perhaps the ones manipulating the price in the futures markets, but they don't share that information, not even with their own clients.  In fact, they are more likely to push the price down so as to trigger the stops of their own clients!  In other words, if their customers place trading orders that say they will sell silver if it dips to a certain price, then the silver price manipulators will push the price down, to trigger the stop loss selling orders.

I do have the long term fundamental understanding of roughly how many Federal Reserve Notes and other paper liabilities are in the system that can be exchanged for silver, and I have a rough idea on how frighteningly little silver is available.  I would estimate the paper money and bonds in the banks at about $16 trillion, what used to be termed M3, which is no longer reported.  I suppose this is growing at a rate of about $1 trillion per year due to the Federal deficit.

http://www.nowandfutures.com/key_stats.html

I would estimate that no more than about 300 million ounces of silver are available for investment purposes, and the vast majority of that is probably not in forms the public would ever buy, meaning that it is in such forms as silver shot pellets, or 1000 oz. bars.  The reason is that forms of silver for investment such as rounds, coins, and 100 oz. bars regularly tend to sell out nation wide, and then wide premiums begin to develop to ration what is left.

So then, why are there such sudden price swings and changes?  First, what kind of price moves are there?

Silver has moved up from about $18.50 to a high of about $24.46 in the last month.  That's a gain of $5.96/oz., which is a gain of 32.2% in about three weeks!

But since then, silver has moved both up and down by about 5% in a single day, moves of over $1 per ounce!

This week, since Monday, silver moved from a high of $23.82 to a low of $21.38 on Friday, 9/13/13, five days later, a price drop of $2.44/oz., for a drop of 10.2%!

It is important to understand the standard interest rates for lending in our era.  Most people in the future looking back at our era will not believe this, but the prime lending rate is 3.25%, as is indicated here:
http://www.bankrate.com/

This indicates that lenders think that if they get 3.25% return in a year, they are somehow beating inflation, and making a wise investment.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Not really, because the lending market is rigged.  It really indicates that the Federal Reserve is trying to hold the economy together by pushing cheap money into the economy through Federal Housing lenders who are trying to re-inflate the housing bubble to keep home prices high.  Again, future generations would read that sentence and probably not understand why the government would have such a disastrous policy.

Regardless, the point is that if we were in a stable economy, with a stable price environment, with sound money, even allowing the gold and silver prices to trade freely, the silver and gold prices should move up no more than the standard interest rate, or about that 3.25% per year.

After all, if silver moved up at clearly defined constant rates more than the lending rate, say, at 5% per year, then any moron or nincompoop or fool after a few short years could otherwise see that buying silver would be a far better move than keeping savings in the bank or buying government bonds.  And if people did that, well, paper money values might collapse even faster, driving up silver values even faster, and there could be runaway inflation, and paper money could just collapse to zero as everyone headed for the safe havens of silver and gold.

Clearly, they can't allow that.

(And actually, since 2004, silver has moved up from $4.15/oz. to $21.38/oz., over the last nine years, which is a compounded average annual gain of 20%!!)

So, to let paper money exist, they must keep a lid on letting silver and gold prices rise, and they do.  Or, they need to hide the steady average annual gains, behind wild price changes.

So, with artificially low prices, eventually the pressure builds, like today, which is why we have had a runaway bull market in silver and gold for the past nine to ten years now. 

But what would happen if half of the $18 trillion tried to buy 300 million ounces of silver within a year?

It's easy math.  A trillion is a million million.  So, cancel the millions. 

It would allocate out to $180 million / 300, or $600,000/oz. for silver, if half the money in the banks tried to buy the remaining silver in a year, which is the price that would be crossed as paper money dies and goes to zero value.

Clearly, the people who print paper money at rates of $85 billion per month don't want to lose the right to print that paper money.  Clearly, the people who print paper money at rates of $85 billion per month have not yet bought a lot of silver for themselves to hoard, since $85 billion / 300 million  ounces would be $85,000/300, or $283 per ounce. 

But what would silver moving up at 5% per year, with a steady increase per day, with no price fluctuations look like?  A compound interest rate calculator shows.

If silver gained only 5% per year, that would be a price change of 0.02% per day, over 250 trading days, which would create a gain of 5% per year.

See that?  Silver is supposed to move up by LESS than 0.02% per day in a stable financial system, not 5% moves in a day, which are 250 times higher, or lower, than what might be expected!

Therefore, what do the 5% price moves per day, up and down, mean, when the interest rate should suggest price moves of less than 0.02% per day, or less than 5% per year?

Now, before I get to that, let me address the potential nay sayers who may claim that it's "Normal" for silver to move that much, because that's what we see.  Well, why doesn't the interest rate fluctuate that much?  It doesn't, because it's "fixed" by the Federal Reserve, because we live in a financial system of "fixed" prices.  If they fixed prices for silver like they do for the interest rate for money, they might make silver as stable as the interest rate.

So, I can guess now what the wild price changes in silver actually mean.

First, I think it indicates that the price is a lie.  A manipulation.  A false report.  A bogus claim. 
The way that prices are "quoted" has nothing to do with actual silver being traded, and yet, actual traders of real silver look at those quoted prices, and often trade accordingly.

The quoted price is called the "spot" price, and it is a ticker tape of paper futures market trades in lots of 5000 oz. at a time.  Each lot is one contract, and thousands of contracts trade in a day.  Most of these paper contracts do not result in any delivery of silver, since they are for delivery "in the future" on the futures markets.

The futures price is pushed around by electronic and pit traders who trade both futures and options and puts. 

We are able to base our prices at jhmint.com based around those prices, because we can re-order silver from wholesalers who do the same, because there are billionaire wholesalers who do the same. 

But it's those who have the net worth exceeding $100 billion, that push the price around, illegally, with no criminal prosecution, because they are probably doing it on behalf of the Federal Government, with the specific intent to keep people in paper money, and out of silver.

See, I feel and believe that the government is attempting to make silver look "volatile" and shaky and unpredictable, but the truth is that paper money is what is truly volatile and shaky. 

See, if paper money were stable, and if paper money were not threatened by silver, then there would be no need for silver to move anywhere more than about that 0.02% or less per day.

See, silver does not come due in a large harvest season.  Mine output and refinery output is rather stable in comparison to harvesting crops, and should have much more stable prices, day after day, month after month.

The wild price changes are also reflective of the truth that the silver market is extraordinarily tiny, and the paper money market is beyond massively huge.  Huge paper money trades moving into and out of silver push the price around far more than it should otherwise trade if the financial system were sound, and soundly backed by silver and gold, and if there were no excesses of paper money.

In other words, the major price swings in the silver price are actually a forecast for a large price rise in my opinion. 

=====

I strongly advise you to take possession of real gold and silver, at anywhere near today's prices, while you still can.   The fundamentals indicate rising prices for decades to come, and a major price spike can happen at any time.

JH MINT & Coin Shop
13241 Grass Valley Ave
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 273-8175
www.jhmint.com

Minimum telephone order $5000 for free shipping, USA shipping only.
Open 10AM to 5PM Pacific Time, Monday to Friday, closed weekends and bank holidays.  (Also Closed from Dec. 25th to Jan 1st)
Kerri handles internet phone orders:
kerri@jhmint.com
(530) 273-8822

NEW Location in Auburn, CA!
JH MINT Silver & Gold
1760 Highway 49 A140
Auburn, CA 95603
(530) 889-1086
www.jhmint.com

You can also buy silver from my mom at www.momssilvershop.com
Mom will ship overseas, even large orders up to $300,000 or larger, and also in lots of more or less than 100 ounces.   
3510 Auburn Blvd #12
Sacramento, CA 95821

Sincerely,

Jason Hommel
www.silverstockreport.com
www.bibleprophesy.org 

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Silver Stock Report: Punishment for Usury: comments

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Punishment for Usury: the Comments

(Some very interesting comments; I could not reply to everyone!)

Silver Stock Report

by Jason Hommel, September 13, 2013

These are the comments from my article yesterday:
The Unifying Theme of Bible Prophecy; the Punishment for Usury
http://silverstockreport.com/2013/usury-punishment.html

Punishment for Usury: comments

Hi Jason,

Thanks! I love it.

You can never write too much or "preach" too much against usury!

It is "Biblical Economics"  not Keynesian or Austrian Economics...nor is it Libertarianism or Statism...it is totally different.    It is God's economics...

But almost nobody really teaches it...and no one even hardly touches the surface of it.

So thanks!

I replied:
Thank you.  That is a very accurate statement.  None seem to quite understand usury the way the Bible does.

=====

You have some interesting biblical interpretations. These struck me because I have never loaned anyone money. I have had people request loans but I have given the amounts requested to them as gifts with no strings attached. I have suggested that, if they are able to in the future, they do the same for someone else. I think this now called "Pay it Forward" or something like that, but I have been doing it for a long time. I am not a Christian and certainly not a "saint", I just do not like the idea of having people owing me money. It seems kind of "Yucky". 

=====

Great insight Jason! Thanks for tying it together. Let me know when green monster boxes are again available as I would prefer to buy from JH Mint. Last quote from other dealers was around 13,050.00
V

I replied:
Thanks.  On our price board, a monster box is $12,935.  No added fees.

www.jhmint.com

=====

I want your thoughts on this paragraph from the Dead Sea Scrolls

And Jesus answered: "Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in th e sunbeams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?"
http://www.thenazareneway.com/essene_gospel_of_peace_book1.htm

I replied:
No creature in nature practices usury or slavery, except man.

=====

Jason, I simply love your enterpretations of prophesy!  Every time I read one of
these, I learn more than I've ever learned elsewhere about that subject.  I have one question to ask you (you will most likely think it's a foolish question)...but will there be a monetary system in place after Christ establishes His kingdom on earth?  And, will we be able to use the gold and silver we have collected before that time?
I guess what I'm getting at, is why buy more and more silver and gold if Jesus
is soon to appear and we'll be raptured up with Him?   This is confusing to some
degree...folks talk of the rapture (or resurrection) which I know will happen because
the Bible says it will.....but since we can take no worldly goods with us...why keep
gathering more and more wealth unless we can use it later during his Kingdom age?
I am a pentecostal who attends a Baptist church, so I'm not getting any information along these lines what-so-ever from my church. The only monetary advice I hear
there concerns tithing, nothing else.   Thanks,  James

I replied:  Thanks James.  I think there will be money in the Kingdom after Jesus comes.  I think that's why God made silver and gold, and called the gold "good" in Genesis.  What use is silver or gold after the rapture?  Well, not everyone is raptured!  Some are made immortal and "we" who are will rule as kings and priests, says the Bible in many places.  I don't see what immortals would need money for, since you might not need to eat or need shelter from the elements even.  You might not even need sleep.  But the remnants of the nations who did not go in the rapture, and who were not destroyed in the tribulation, they will probably use silver and gold as money.  I don't think they will use paper or any usury system money.  The silver and gold I have will probably be left behind.  For who?  Who knows.  There's no use taking it with you, that's for sure.  Rich men don't get into heaven, because I don't think any riches can come with you.  I think it's sad that nobody in your church has tried to answer your question.  What do you think of my answer?

James answered me:

Jason, I love your answer.  This is what I had pretty much figured out from reading the scriptures, and from talks with my Dad before he passed away.  There's so much to know about the end times except just the rapture - just as there is much more than talking in tongues (which are merely the evidence) to the babtism in The Holy Ghost (acts: 2).  When I have asked these questions concerning earthly wealth and many other topics that I know will be very important to know in these last days,
all I get back is "These things won't matter after the rapture".  Of course, the Babptists preach that talking in tongues is "of the Devil", and I know this is not true, because God would never allow the Disciples to indulge in anything "of the Devil".  But, there are 9 gifts associated with the babtism, and around here all
people want is the tongues part.  There are many reasons for this, but the main reason is for the excitement and 'self gratification'.  I once taught adult Sunday School, and this topic was the most controversial subject I ever 'tried' to teach.
I could never get this particular church to understand that having the babtism
in the Holy Ghost is for one purpose and one purpose only...to edify Christ!
There is so much fake stuff going on in this...no wonder the Baptists say it's "of the Devil" - because the fake ones are.  Now, I've said all this to say this:  The Holy Spirit leads us into greater knowlege...and this led me into becoming interested in gold and silver, and into the knowlege that unless one can help himself, he will never be able to help his fellow man.  I believe the Bible says something like "If you see your brother hath a need, and you have the means to help him - but shutteth up your bowels of compassion toward him....how can you have the love of God within you?"  That's not a totally acurate quote from the Bible, but I think you know what I'm getting at.   Thank you so much for clarifying this for me, I have always trusted your wisdom of the Bible, and have found it very useful on many ocassions.
Again, thank you very much.    Your brother in Christ      James

=====

Don't you think 17% for Silver Eagles is Usurious?

I replied.  Not when our add on mark up is no more than any other product. 

The cost is due to fresh minting cost, millions of sunk capital into machines, and the scarcity factor.

=====

Hello Jason – Thanks for the e-mail and interesting commentary, but let me enlighten you…..There is no ‘Rapture’ it is not scriptural, I am not sure where or how you came about this false doctrine, but you should research it fully, as to believe in it will leave you unprepared for the tribulation we will face.
 
In peace and Gods love I write to you.
 
Kind regards
 
P

I replied:
I have researched it fully.  See bibleprophesy.org.  Thank you.

=====

Jason,

Interesting attempt to tie the false premise of the man made doctrine of the rapture theory and the sin of usury. Usury was just one of the sins of rebellion that caused their punishment.  The abuse of widows, orphans and foreigners along with the idolatry and the blatant rejection of God's regulations given through Moses are just some of the reasons for the judgement of God against them.   It suggest that you research the history and origin of rapture with an open mind and I honestly believe you will discover the truth.

"An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken, or ceases to be honest"

Apart from your obsession with this rapture theme, it was a very well thought out and explained teaching regarding usury...honestly.       

M

I replied:  Thank you.  You can study more of what I have studied about the rapture at bibleprophesy.org.

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Hi Jason,
You may find this interesting.

Noonan is correct that the Church consistently condemned usury in the most official way. For example, Canon 13 of the Second Lateran Council (1139) says: "Furthermore we condemn that practice accounted despicable and blame worthy by divine and human laws, denounced by Scripture in the Old and New Testaments, namely, the ferocious greed of usurers; and we sever them from every comfort of the Church, forbidding any archbishop or bishop, or an abbot of any order whatever or anyone in clerical orders, to dare to receive usurers, unless they do so with extreme caution; but let them be held infamous throughout their whole lives and, unless they repent, be deprived of a Christian burial."

Similarly, Canon 25 of the Third Lateran Council (1179) says, "Nearly everywhere the crime of usury has become so firmly rooted that many, omitting other business, practice usury as if it were permitted and in no way observe how it is forbidden in both the Old and New Testament. We therefore declare that notorious usurers should not be admitted to communion of the altar or receive Christian burial if they die in this sin." And Canon 29 of the Council of Vienne (1311) says, "If indeed someone has fallen into the error of presuming to affirm pertinaciously that the practice of usury is not sinful, we decree that he is to be punished as a heretic."

These injunctions were approved by many popes, including Alexander III, Gregory IX, Urban III, Innocent III, and Clement V The teaching of the Church condemning usury is unambiguous, binding, and irrevocable. (Noonan is right, I think, to insist that if anything has been infallibly defined in the Church by both popes and councils, the condemnation of usury certainly has. There have been so many solemn decrees on the matter that to argue, as some have, that the technicalities of an infallible teaching have not been met, or that the prohibitions against usury are only disciplinary and not doctrinal, is an exercise in special pleading [Noonan, 61-3].)

But just what is usury? This is the crux of the matter. First, let's be clear about what usury is not. It is not, as many people think, exorbitant interest on a loan. All parties in this discussion are agreed that the rate of interest has nothing to do with whether a loan is usurious (Noonan, 56). So what is it? Noonan argues that usury is the taking of any interest on any sort of loan. He claims that the condemnation of usury, so defined, is the teaching of Scripture and that this biblical principle was taken up by the Church Fathers and later codified in the Church's official teaching: "The teaching on usury of the Old Testament was explicitly confirmed by the New Testament. The text of the Vulgate was clear and phrased with legal exactness to condemn all profit on a loan: Mutuum date, nihil inde sperantes, 'Lend hoping nothing thereby.' The words were taken to be an express commandment. They were taken [by the early Church] as the words of the Lord himself. Absolutely, unequivocally, without exception, all return on a loan was condemned" (ibid., 57).

If this is the correct definition of usury, then we do have a contradiction in the Church's teaching and practice. (The 1911 Code of Canon Law, for example, required Catholic institutions to keep operating funds on deposit at interest.) But is Noonan's definition correct? Let's do a bit of investigation.

In the Old Testament the injunctions against interest-taking fall generally into three classes.

First, passages such as Exodus 22:25 and Leviticus 25:35-38 command that the poor among the Israelites are to receive interest-free loans, out of compassion and mercy.

The second group of texts is illustrated by Deuteronomy 23:19-21: "You shall not charge interest to your countrymen: interest on money, food, or anything that may be loaned at interest. You may charge interest to a foreigner, but to your countryman you shall not charge interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land which you are about to enter to possess." Here the principle of interest-free loans is extended to embrace all of Israel (and would include those non-Jews who are living under Israel's protection). But notice that the Scripture also says, "You may charge interest to a foreigner," indicating that interest-taking is not presented as inherently evil or sinful.

Finally, the third group of texts (Ezek. 18:13, 17, Jer. 15:10, Prov. 28:8) condemn the greed of the rich, who oppress the poor by, among other things, exacting interest which the unfortunate are unable to pay.

So in the Old Testament we have specific prohibitions against Israelites taking interest on loans to other, poor Israelites, or more generally to any Israelites, but this prohibition does not constitute an absolute prohibition against all interest-taking; in fact, we have explicit testimony that interest is not completely forbidden. The larger ethical issue of the morality of interest-taking is not addressed in the Old Testament. Rather, "interest was viewed only as a problem of social justice. The problem of commutative justice, i.e., of equivalence of value in an exchange of present for future goods, remained quite untouched" (Thomas F. Divine, S.J., Interest, 10).

In the New Testament the situation is much the same. The Lord urges compassion and generosity from his people in lending: "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you" (Matt 5:42). So too our Lord says, "And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, in order to receive back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men" (Luke 6:34).

Situated here, in the Sermon on the Mount, this passage is clearly an appeal for Christian generosity; but it says nothing of the intrinsic morality of interest-taking. In fact, in the Parable of the Talents, our Lord chides the lazy servant who failed to receive any return on his master's money: "You ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest" (Matt 25:27; cf. Luke 19:23). The Lord Jesus himself is the "master" in this parable, and it is impossible that he would place in his own mouth an injunction for his servant to do something intrinsically immoral. So here, as in the Old Testament, the New Testament urges generosity and freedom in lending, especially to the poor, but fails to support the blanket condemnation of all interest posited by Noonan. Indeed Noonan passes over in silence the parts of Scripture that indicate that interest-taking is not inherently immoral.

The Church Fathers were concerned, as is Scripture, to protect the poor from the rapacity of the rich who oppressed them through interest-taking, but they stopped short of categorically labeling all taking of interest as intrinsically immoral. As the Jesuit Thomas F. Divine says, "In the writings of the early Fathers, we find only reiterations of the scriptural precepts that it is contrary to charity and mercy to exact usury of the poor, without any intimation that these precepts imply a universal prohibition" (Divine, 26).

The Catholic Encyclopedia says that until the fourth century all that can be inferred from the writings of the Fathers and ecclesiastical writers is that it is contrary to mercy and humanity to demand interest from a poor and needy man. The vehement denunciations of the Fathers of the fourth and fifth centuries were called forth by the moral decadence and avarice of the time, and we cannot find in them any expression of a general doctrine on this point; nor do the Fathers of the following centuries say anything remarkable on usury; they simply protest against the exploitation of misfortune and against transactions that, under the pretence of rendering service to the borrower, really threw him into great distress.

The Church Fathers, like the authors of Scripture, are not intent on presenting an analysis of the morality of interest taking. But there is an added development in the patristic writings: "Where the problem of commutative justice is touched, it is practically always with respect to conditions such as these in which money is 'idle' and unfruitful, and usury is defined as anything (whether of money or of any other commodity) in excess of the amount advanced to the borrower" (Divine, 33).

It is a bit hard for us to understand, but, during the greater portion of antiquity, economies were characterized by a lack of competitive markets and thus few opportunities for investment. Money itself was considered primarily a medium of private and not commercial exchange. As Joseph Rickaby says of the Middle Ages (and his comments apply to much of antiquity as well): "In those days land was hard to buy, agriculture backward, roads bad, seas unnavigable, carrying-trade precarious, messages slow, raids and marauders frequent, population sparse, commerce confined to a few centers, mines unworked, manufactures mostly domestic, capital as yet unformed. Men kept their money in their cellars or deposited it for safety in religious houses. . .-They took out coin as they wanted it to spend on housekeeping, or on war, or on feasting. It was very hard, next to impossible, to lay out money so as to make more money by it. Money was in those days really barren" (Moral Philosophy,261).

During the Scholastic period of the Middle Ages, many issues, including the question of the morality of interest-taking, were subjected to more detailed analysis. On what specific principles is interest-taking moral or immoral? This was at the heart of the question of usury. Eventually the morality of interest-taking came to be understood as intrinsically bound up in the nature of the thing lent and the impact (or lack thereof) on the person lending it. It is immoral to take interest on the loan of a thing that is completely consumed by its use, for which one has no other use, and for which one incurs no loss by lending it.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia elaborates on the technical definition of usury as it came to be used in the Middle Ages and thus in the formal conciliar texts of the Church: "From the Latin usura, usury originally meant a charge for a loan of a fungible, i.e., perishable, nonspecific good, whose use consisted of its consumption. Such a loan was called a mutuum. Money, considered to be 'consumed' in the process of exchange for other goods, was classified as a fungible good. And as a money loan became the most common form of loan of this type, usury came to signify a charge for the use of money. Only after repeal of the laws prohibiting interest (usury in the above sense) and the establishment of legal rates did usury assume its present meaning of a charge for a money loan that is exorbitant or exceeds the legal rate."

As we have seen, money itself was considered "barren," since there were only two licit things one could do with it: spend ("consume") it or hoard it. The Catholic Encyclopedia explains: "Money [in the early Middle Ages] was considered a fungible good since, once it was exchanged for other goods, its use ceased to exist for the borrower." (In civil law, goods are considered "fungible" if one unit of them can replace any other unit, such as in paying a debt. The term may be applied to things other than money, such as bushels of wheat or bales of cotton, provided they may be used interchangeably as a means of exchange and that their value is consumed by their use.)

One can lend money at interest, but in lending such money the lender is guilty of usury: "Apart from risk of nonrepayment, to take interest for money that you had no use for but to hoard was getting 'a breed of barren metal.' It was taking up what you laid not down; it was making profit out of your neighbor's need, or your neighbor's gain, where there was no corresponding need unsatisfied, or gain forfeited, on your part" (Rickaby, 261).

As these ethical and economic principles became fully appreciated, and as civilization progressed, it became clear that money in more modern economies—with competitive markets and almost unlimited opportunities for profitable ("fruitful") investment—did not suffer from the same tendency to be "unfruitful" as it had before. In the face of this change, the Church defined what is meant by usury. Session X of the Fifth Lateran Council (1515) gave its exact meaning: "For that is the real meaning of usury: when, from its use, a thing which produces nothing is applied to the acquiring of gain and profit without any work, any expense or any risk."

So too, Pope Benedict XIV in his encyclical Vix Pervenit, says: "The nature of the sin called usury has its proper place and origin in a loan contract[mutuum]. This financial contract between consenting parties demands, by its very nature, that one return to another only as much as he has received. The sin rests on the fact that sometimes the creditor desires more than he has given. Therefore he contends some gain is owed him beyond that which he loaned, but any gain which exceeds the amount he gave is illicit and usurious."

Note again that a mutuum is "a loan of a fungible, i.e., perishable, nonspecific good, whose use consisted of its consumption" (New Catholic Encyclopedia). But at present the choice for one's money in our world-economy is never simply between spending and hoarding, for money can always been invested in any number of genuinely profitable ("fruitful") enterprises. There is much greater facility nowadays for making profitable investments of savings, and a true value, therefore, is always attached to the possession of money, as also to credit itself. A lender, during the whole time that the loan continues, deprives himself of a valuable thing, for the price of which he is compensated by the interest. It is right at the present day to permit interest (which is different from usury) on money lent, as it was not wrong to condemn the practice at a time when it was more difficult to find profitable investments for money.

Money is no longer a barren thing in itself, and thus the loan of money at interest is not usurious. Rickaby sums up the correct view of usury nicely: "[I]t is usury to take any interest at all upon the loan of a piece of property, which (a) is of no use except to be used up, spent, consumed; (b) is not wanted for the lender's own consumption within the period of the load; (c) is lent upon security that obviates risk; (d) is so lent that the lender forgoes no occasion of lawful gain by lending it" (Rickaby, 258).

Due to advances in transportation, communications and generally expanding economies, the nature of money itself has changed in the course of time. A loan that was usurious at one point in history, due to the unfruitfulness of money, is not usurious later, when the development of competitive markets has changed the nature of money itself. But this is nota change of the Church's teaching on usury. Today nearly all commercial transactions, including monetary loans at interest, do not qualify as usury. This constitutes a change only in the nature of the financial transaction itself, not in the teaching of the Church on usury. "Still she maintains dogmatically that there is such a sin as usury, and what it is, as defined in the Fifth Council of Lateran "(ibid., 263).
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=646

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JASON,
LET ME SAVE YOU FROM THE SHOALS:  JESUS NEVER PREACHED A SERMON OR PARABLE TO GENTILES, I.E. YOU & ME.  SEE MATT. 10: 5 OR THEREABOUTS, WHERE JESUS CAME ONLY TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
PAUL NEVER QUOTED JESUS' EARTHLY MINISTRY (WHY?  HE IS GOD)---YOU SHOULD NOT EITHER.
YOU SEE, JESUS PREACHED TORAH PERFECTLY, ONLY TO JEWS OR HALF-BREEDS,  SO TO FULFILL THE LAW, AS GOD ON EARTH.
AFTER THE RESURRECTION, JESUS PREACHED ONLY THE "PROPHETS", AS DID ST. PAUL(SEE ACTS, WHERE PAUL PREACHED TO FELIX, FESTUS, AND AGRIPPA)---AND NOW TO GENTILES, AS WELL.  THEY DIDN'T RUN AROUND SPLASHING WATER ON PEOPLE.  SEE ACTS 1:5, WHERE JESUS AND PAUL STUCK TO BUSINESS, AND BAPTIZED ONLY WITH THE HOLY GHOST, SAYING THEY CAME NOT TO BAPTIZE WITH JEWISH PURIFICATION RITES.
INDEED, JESUS PREACHED THE FIRST GOSPEL SERMON----THE TORAH (GEN. 3:15); THE PSALMS (22)& THE PROPHETS (IS. 53, ET AL).  LUKE 24:48 , IS THE BASE SCRIPTURE AS I RECALL.
DON'T WREST SCRIPTURE, AND THEN PRETEND YOU DISCOVERED SOMETHING NEVER THERE, AFTER A LONG PERSONAL WRESTLE.  APOSTASY IS OFT GROWN IN SOIL LIKE THAT.
I COULD SEND YOU A SET OF BOOKS TO CLARIFY SUCH---BY A CALIFORNIAN.
                 ---JIM ELSMAN, J.D., EX OF HARVARD DIVINITY

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Jason,

  One of the parables of Jesus was not explained to his disciples. It was the parable of the fig tree. This was the most important parable which he commanded his disciples to learn. Do you know what Jesus taught in this regard ?

  Best,

  -Ron

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Jason, the book of revelation states that by their sorceries (magic) were all the nations deceived, never in world history has all the nations of the earth at one time been creating money from thin air i.e.( by and from the prince of the power of the air). The horseman with the set of scales is announcing that unjust weights and measures are an abomination to God. and immediately followed by a statement that it will cost a days wages for a loaf of Bread. Amos states that the famine of the end time will not be for food but for hearing the word of God. The food will be available but who will be able to afford just a loaf of bread. The very first act of Jesus upon declaring himself King of kings and Lord of lords was to enter the temple and overturn the tables of the money changers. They were dealing in graven images,substituting Graven images for acceptable money. The dollar is the ultimate graven image, a credit based money created out of thin air by none other than the enemy of our souls. the pre trib rapture doctrine is also part of Satan's deception, It is place in the book of revelation between chapters three and four in order to make it fit. the last two paragraphs of the book of revelation announce the penalty for adding to or taking away from the words written in this book.The pre-trib rapture doctrine is a man made fable, and the spirit speaks expressly that in the latter days some would depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. God also pronounced that he would send a spirit of delusion on those that believe This lie. If you believe in the pre trib rapture then you have in effect pronounced Jesus to be a liar in Mathew chapter 24,mark chapter 13,and Luke chapter 21. After all from the mouth of two or three witnesses is every matter established. All  three clearly state that Jesus comes after the abomination of desolation is set up by Satan. the spurious messiah Satan shows up at the 6th trump 6th vial and 6th seal, 666 the true Christ arrives at the 7th trump at which time we will be changed into spiritual beings. behold I tell you a secret we will all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of the eye  AT THE LAST TRUMP. The word rapture cannot be found in scripture and is a cunningly devised fable and part of satans end time deception. Ezekiel chapter 13 states that God is against those prophets that teach their children to fly to save their souls. that refuse his outstretched hands.

I replied:
The word rapture is derrived from the latin translation of the Greek word "Harpazo" in 1 Thess 4, which is translated in the KJV as the English words "caught up". The word Bible is also not found in the Bible, does that mean that there is no such thing as a Bible?

As for Ezekiel 13, I have a commentary on your common misunderstanding.
http://bibleprophesy.org/fly.htm
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HI Jason,

Thank you for the Bible Prophesy.

Glad you are back, thank you.

D

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Jason.
Interesting , but don't overlook mans original sin and disobedience to God. I agree with much of what you say, but limiting it to usury and money is a bit much. God in his Wisdom gave man a means of something of value for trade. Gold and Silver, salt , olive oil, water, etc. Without the means for exchange we are all at the point of violence for getting what we want. Man in his Free Will , given by God, has corrupted himself with (money) as man has corrupted almost anything to do with himself.

 Becareful to distinguish between Jews and Gentiles.... Under Grace, since the conversion of Paul we are the same before God (Jews and Gentiles). All cast in unbelief so he might have mercy on all. Reconciled to God by simple faith in Jesus , not our Messiah, not even Messiah for Jews now , but our reconciler who makes us in righteous before God by our faith in Him. We (Gentiles) were not included in the Old Testsment and The Four Gospels ( as anything to do with Gods chosen People) , as Gentiles were considered dogs. Gentile faith in the Four Gospels was used as an example to basically embarass the Jews or prove to them his being the Son of God.

Jews will again be the witnesses to the World they were supposed to be up to the stoning of Stephen then ...Paul was Gods chosen vessel to the Gentiles. Jews were put on hold until ? Then the Rapture, then the last 7 years.
Oversimplification but I felt I should write.
S

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Hey Jason, completely agree. Did you just read "The Harbinger"? It is amazing how God is revealing Himself in these last days.

J

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Jason,from the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses is every matter established,I gave you the testimony of Jesus in Mathew 24,mark 13 and Luke 21 and  add 2 thess:2: 9-12. Titus 1: 13-14,Gal: 1: 6-12,rev 22:14-15, acts 4:22, 2 tim. 4;3  and 1 john 5:10. I now ask you to furnish me with your 2 or three biblical witnesses to prove your pre-trib belief. I close with acts 4:22 and it shall come to pass that every soul which will not hear that prophet ( Jesus) shall be destroyed from among the people. and john 8:47. looking forward to your biblical witnesses proving your belief in the pre-trib doctrine.

I replied: G, I completely agree that things are established by two or three witnesses, as the Bible says.  Here are some links to some Bible passages that prove to me that the pre tribulation rapture is true, based on the two verses you quoted from Matt 24, and 2 Thess 2.

http://bibleprophesy.org/matt24commentary1.htm
http://bibleprophesy.org/matt24commentary2.htm
http://bibleprophesy.org/matt24commentary3.htm
http://bibleprophesy.org/matt24commentary4.htm
http://bibleprophesy.org/matt24commentary5.htm

http://bibleprophesy.org/2thessalonians2.htm

And for further reference, here are 300 verses, broken down into 19 main arguments, why I believe the pretribulation rapture is true.  Please note, this is merely a summary.

http://bibleprophesy.org/rapture.htm

Please note further, the many Biblical warnings of trying to look at any verse, but also Matt 24 without the proper Biblical foundation and study and comparison to the many other similar verses in the Bible, which I showcase in my commentary.

2 Peter 3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2 Corinthians 4:3  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

1Cor 14:22 ... prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

John 1:5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

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I could teach or debate your point of view on the rapture (successfully) because I studied both sides in depth many years ago and understand both sides of the argument very well.   I just came to the conclusion (post-pan)  after discovering the origins and people involved in introducing the teaching of this doctrine in the church.  The charismatics or which might include the word of faith movement today where the instigators.  Just not sound doctrine as Paul would encourage Timothy to teach.  Instigates anger and controversy and really doesn't matter.  This is a new teaching (100 years or so) in comparison to 2000 years of the teaching to the church.   It is very much connected to many other false doctrines prevalent today in the church.  Remember, I'm a PanTriber (it will all pan out) and I would rather concentrate on the sound aspects of the Gospel...Faith...Hope and Love being the mortar that binds it all together.

Again, check it out for yourself and if you need some good links that are very comprehensive and convincing I will happy to do so. 

Mc

I replied:  Dear M,  I have discovered that the doctrine of the pre tribulation rapture was taught by two of the very earliest Church Fathers, both Clement and Polycarp, so I sincerely believe the doctrine is entirely Biblical, and is certainly 1900 years old, not 100. 

http://bibleprophesy.org/clement.htm

Furthermore, there were people teaching the pretrib as far back as the late 1500s and late 1700, too.  Ribera and Edwards.
http://bibleprophesy.org/jesuitrapture.htm

And not surprisingly, some people claim that the supposed "Jesuit" origins of Ribera in the late 1500's are the reason to reject the idea of futurism and the pretribulation rapture.

So, if you are going to reject the idea of the rapture, you should at least be accurate, and claim rightly that the doctrine was not made popular until Darby and Scofield. 

But if you are going to reject the doctrine because men who teach it are sinful, I'm sorry, but all men are sinful, as we have inherited sin from Adam, or did you miss that part in Genesis and explained by Paul in Romans?

And your argument, that the doctrine makes you angry, is the first time I have ever, in well over 1000 discussions, heard that as a reason to reject it.  Most reject it because it is a "comfort doctrine", but the Bible says prophecy is supposed to bring comfort.

I do understand that the doctrine cannot bring comfort to someone who refuses to believe it, but that's also what the Bible teaches.

1 Cor 14:22 ... prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Hebrews 10:26-27  If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

=====

Mc sent me another email:

See attached. (3) These commentaries are a good start at understanding the history of the rapture teaching and how scriptures in the bible support that there is only one resurrection on "The last Day" when the Lord returns.

I hope you do read it and not simply disgard it because you have already come to a conclusion.

Also, I have read a lot of your commentary on your prophecy site and enjoyed much and learned more about the old testament history.     

Mc

I replied:

I also believe the resurrections will happen on or at the last day.  I believe the last day is 1000 years long, and starts with the pretribulation rapture, and the casting out of Satan out of Heaven, followed by the darkness of the 7 year tribulation for the first seven of the 1000 years.

The topic of the entire Chapter of 2 Peter 3 is the day of the Lord.

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Remember, God told Adam he would die in that day, but Adam lived to be 930 years old.  Adam did die within the day, because with the Lord, a day is as 1000 years.

Genesis 4:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.

=====

=====

I strongly advise you to take possession of real gold and silver, at anywhere near today's prices, while you still can.   The fundamentals indicate rising prices for decades to come, and a major price spike can happen at any time.

JH MINT & Coin Shop
13241 Grass Valley Ave
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 273-8175
www.jhmint.com

Minimum telephone order $5000 for free shipping, USA shipping only.
Open 10AM to 5PM Pacific Time, Monday to Friday, closed weekends and bank holidays.  (Also Closed from Dec. 25th to Jan 1st)
Kerri handles internet phone orders:
kerri@jhmint.com
(530) 273-8822

Our other Location in Auburn, CA!
JH MINT Silver & Gold
1760 Highway 49 A140
Auburn, CA 95603
(530) 889-1086
www.jhmint.com

Sincerely,

Jason Hommel
www.silverstockreport.com
www.bibleprophesy.org 

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